Posts by Island Man

45

When selling was preaching ...

by Hecce in

i am going way, way back.

history reveals that in the beginning the wt was just a publishing house, selling books and magazines; over the years it evolved into what it is today..

the placement of the original publications was mostly done thru sales people masquerading as preachers.

Island Man

Excuse if this subject that has been treated before.

Finkelstein has been doing a good job helping lurkers and everyone know about Watchtower's very commercial beginnings. But your op is still informative, nonetheless.

34

How far will they go?

by careful in

i've been drawing back lately and looking at the big picture going on in the org, somewhat like slimboyfat has also been doing, but i am wondering about different possibilities.

so the current gb has modernized recently in various ways.

they have done a strong and sudden about-face regarding the electronic world, from viewing the whole thing suspiciously and condemning bros. use tablets from the platform to suddenly embracing them and causing the r&f to do so to such a degree that old ones are spending hundreds of dollars to buy devices that they have no clue how to use; they have heavily embraced this media for their message, very much like the churches have been doing for years, especially with their jw broadcasting and their caleb and sophia animations.

Island Man

I forgot to mention FS attire where I'm at. Field service attire is the same as KH attire. The only difference is that brothers don't wear Jackets in field service.

34

How far will they go?

by careful in

i've been drawing back lately and looking at the big picture going on in the org, somewhat like slimboyfat has also been doing, but i am wondering about different possibilities.

so the current gb has modernized recently in various ways.

they have done a strong and sudden about-face regarding the electronic world, from viewing the whole thing suspiciously and condemning bros. use tablets from the platform to suddenly embracing them and causing the r&f to do so to such a degree that old ones are spending hundreds of dollars to buy devices that they have no clue how to use; they have heavily embraced this media for their message, very much like the churches have been doing for years, especially with their jw broadcasting and their caleb and sophia animations.

Island Man

brandnew: Does anyone know of the dress code , in the carribean?

I'm not prepared to give my exact location but I live on an island in the southern Caribbean.

Here JWs are taught to dress conservatively and avoid worldly fads. I occasionally see the odd sister wearing shorter than acceptable skirts but it's not the norm and such sisters are invariably regarded by other JWs as not being the most exemplary.

Sisters can't go on the platform wearing pants. Brothers can't do a meeting part on the platform without wearing a jacket. Brothers wear jackets when roving the mikes and doing stage duty. Beards are a no-no. If a brother has a beard he will be spoken to about it. He will not be allowed to have any privileges in the congregation if he's not clean shaven.

One time at a convention I saw a visiting non-JW man enter the door with a stub in his ear (earring). An attendant went up and spoke with him and they both exited the door. A few minutes later the same non-JW re-entered the door without the ear stub. LOL.

6

Fiery Furnace: A symbol or a literal?

by MercyBrew in

matt.

13: 24 - 30 contains a parable spoken by the lord jesus himself.

in it jesus spoke of a symbolic sower who sowed symbolic seeds in a symbolic field.

Island Man

I don't know about the rest of the NT but I must say that the author of Revelation clearly teaches torment in fire. Revelation explicitly talks about the false prophet being tormented in the lake of fire forever. There's no getting around it.

I don't believe hell or eternal torment is real. But I would be lying if I said the author of Revelation doesn't believe. The JWs' attempts at dismissing the reference to eternal torment in fire, in the book of Revelation, come off as disingenuous spin-doctoring to deny the obvious.

The fiery furnace in Matthew could be symbolic of destruction. I can definitely see how that argument can be made in the context of the fact that the wheat, weeds and fishes are also symbolic. But because Revelation talks about being tormented in the lake of fire day and night - this has to be referring to some kind of literal eternal torture.

22

Powerball Jackpot up to 1.3 Billion Dollars. Do you think the governing body bought any tickets?

by My Name is of No Consequence in

what if the governing body members bought a ticket or somehow obtained one.

then the unthinkable happens...they won!

how would they be able to hide that?

Island Man

Do you think the Governing Body bought any tickets?

If they did, they probably used a worldly proxy with whom they've made an agreement that if he wins he will donate 90% or more to the organization or else his JW relatives will be instructed to shun him due to his plotting to share apostate information with them to draw them away from Jehovah.

38

To me this seams like more than a coincidence ...

by Greybeard in

jw
friends

sorry if this has been discussed before.... for a few days now, this question has been going through my mind.

what was the date the governing body took the sole role of the faithful and discreet slave and how close was it to the end of the mayan calendar in december of 2012?

i looked it up on jwfactes.com and sure enough, checkout the date on this article:.

Island Man

The date was sometime in 1919. That's when the Governing Body took the sole role of Faithful and discreet slave . . . only they they didn't know this until sometime in 2012, exactly when they became aware of it is not mentioned to my knowledge. They didn't take on that role in 2012. They merely reported then that they recently came to realize that they - only the Governing Body - took on that role in 1919.

Coincidences - especially when persons try to point to supposed paranormal or conspiracy-theory-esque connotations - don't really impress me. Coincidence do happen and we don't need to be reading any special significance into them unless there is real evidence to suggest otherwise.

291

Evolution is a Fact #1 - Protein Functional Redundancy

by cofty in

i intend for this to be one of a series of bite-sized ops on the evidence for evolution.. introduction to dna genes are sequences of dna made up of words (codons) each of which are three letters (bases) long.

there are only four letters in the genetic alphabet (acg&t) each word or codon is the recipe for one amino acid.

there are 20 different amino acids in living organisms.

Island Man

Sowhatnow: I think its also fascinating that people can actually explain it,
while I sit with a deer in the headlight expression on my face, and wonder why I cannot understand.

What part(s) do you have difficulty understanding? Tell us and if its something I understand I'll try to break it down as simply as possible using illustrations.

6

The revolting morality underpinning martyrdom.

by Island Man in

the three hebrew boys chose death over bowing down to lifeless idols.

early christians refused to sacrifice to the emperor's genious.

jws in nazi germany refused to sign a document that will result in their release or spare them from execution.

Island Man

The three Hebrew boys chose death over bowing down to lifeless idols. Early christians refused to sacrifice to the Emperor's genious. JWs in nazi Germany refused to sign a document that will result in their release or spare them from execution. They are all praised as integrity keepers.

But what do these scenarios say about the morality of the god of the bible? How does putting a perfunctory signature to a piece of paper, change the love that a JW has for God in his heart? How does perfunctorily bowing down to a lifeless idol to save your life, change the fact that you know it's lifeless and you give your true worship only to God? Is it moral or loving for God to punish people for performing perfunctory acts to save their life and which do not truly reflect their feelings toward him in their heart? To illustrate my point consider other similar scenarios:

Imagine a scenario where a man's wife is given the ultimatum of being asked to put her signature to a document stating that she doesn't love her husband, or face a gruesome death. What would you think of this man if he wants his wife to refuse signing the document under any circumstances? It does not matter to him that she would not really mean it and that she really does love him in her heart. He would rather see her die than compromise her integrity to him by putting even a disingenuous signature at the end of the document. Is this a man who really loves his wife?

Consider a bank teller who complies with the demands of an armed robber pointing a gun at her. She fills his sack with wads of cash, fearing for her life if she does not comply. Does that make her a robber? Is she deserving of being charged for criminal conduct because of her actions? Should she be fired for compromising her integrity to the bank? What would people think of the bank if she was fired for her actions? Shouldn't we think the same of a god whose actions are comparable?

291

Evolution is a Fact #1 - Protein Functional Redundancy

by cofty in

i intend for this to be one of a series of bite-sized ops on the evidence for evolution.. introduction to dna genes are sequences of dna made up of words (codons) each of which are three letters (bases) long.

there are only four letters in the genetic alphabet (acg&t) each word or codon is the recipe for one amino acid.

there are 20 different amino acids in living organisms.

Island Man

"It always disturbed me though, as to where any matter came from to begin with. [the human idea that something doesn't come from nothing]"

That is understandable. Our intuitive perception of what is possible is based on our everyday life experiences at the macro-scale. But scientific observations show that what takes place at the quantum scale is very counter-intuitive. This is why common sense cannot be applied to the subject of the origin of matter and the universe. We have to apply unbiased Math and Physics - "exotic sense", if you will. When applied, Mathematically and Scientifically feasible explanations for the origin of life emerge, without the need for any gods.

Also think about this: if the origin of matter seems like an insurmountable incongruity, what about the origin of god? Which is more incongruous - the spontaneous origin of simple finite particles at the quantum level; or the notion of a complex ever-existing God without beginning or end? To me, using an unbeginning, ever-existing god to explain the incongruity of the universe's origin is comparable to someone borrowing 1 million dollars to pay off a 1 hundred dollar debt.

Here's something to ponder on to help you appreciate why you cannot use common sense to dismiss science that seems counter-intuitive. There are/were people living in remote jungle locations having no access to or knowledge of modern technology and science. When they are first contacted by people from the outside modern world, they are perplexed by things we take for granted. Their "common sense" is completely ignorant of modern science so the marvels of modern technology is invariably interpreted by them as magic and as a result they may even briefly think of their modern visitors as being gods.

The lesson in this is that we cannot put our own sense of what is possible or impossible above what scientific research and experimentation reveals. Our own sense of possibility is limited by our ignorance. Thus we cannot use common sense to guide us in understanding the exotic things that do not comprise everyday happenings. We cannot use common sense to determine the best explanation for the origin of the universe and life. We have to use science. If we limit ourselves to common sense, then in ignorance, we will find ourselves, like the scientifically primitive jungle dwellers, resorting to fallacious explanations that involve magic and gods.

291

Evolution is a Fact #1 - Protein Functional Redundancy

by cofty in

i intend for this to be one of a series of bite-sized ops on the evidence for evolution.. introduction to dna genes are sequences of dna made up of words (codons) each of which are three letters (bases) long.

there are only four letters in the genetic alphabet (acg&t) each word or codon is the recipe for one amino acid.

there are 20 different amino acids in living organisms.

Island Man

"Common sense leads towards a creator"

Wow! Thanks for validating a point I made on another thread where I said:

Many people believe in a supreme creator god because they use common sense. Common sense is acquired from our personal experiences of how the world works. Obviously our common sense is thus limited by our experiences - lived or learned. Common sense is good for common, every day life. But is it wise to use common sense to explain uncommon, exotic phenomena?
Theists know that complex machinery and human technology come about by human creators. Using common sense they project this principle of creation of the functional and complex unto the natural world. If a house needs a designer, then surely the universe does too, they reason.
But remember what we said about common sense being informed by human experience. We know from human experience that human technology needs a creator and it's possible to see human technology in the process of being made. What experience do we have of universes being made? None.